NASAdude

Wow. This is a topic I've thought about a lot. I have come to the conclusion that there is no 'rule of thumb' here. No easy line to draw to say what could be flirting, what isn't, how this person will react to this, etc.

I believe it all comes down to a few things, some of which will be easily defineable, and some of which will not.

First, the type of person you are. If you are a closed, keep-to-yourself kind of guy, an outgoing physical touch may seem more likely like you flirting than someone who is open, and shares everything and does that sort of thing on a regular basis. I am not trying to say you necessarily fall into either of these categories, I'm just giving examples. You have to consider how you are perceived as others. But this leaves a problem. Say you are a closed guy, but you want to be friendly in a physical manner(and keep your hormones down guys, we all know what we mean by 'physical' in this conversation), what do you do? You know that if you engage in that sort of behavior it may be viewed as flirting...or worse. How do you change that image(prejudice?)that people have about you? Can you? Quickly?

Secondly, I think that the type of person that the girl is also needs to be considered. Me tickling Sally might not be okay with Sally even though I tickle Joanne all the time(who are these girls?!?!). Some girls are just not okay with casual, friendly physical contact with boys, and that needs to be taken into account. This isn't something you can tell by looking at the girl, this is an idea, a notion, that you have to cultivate over time. I usually try to get to know the girl fairly well before I do anything that could possibly make her uncomfortable. Until you can see where the line is for that person, we need to assume that stuff we do with other friends in a completely innocent manner might be crossing it.

You also have to consider your relationship WITH the person. This girl could be completely comfortable with a wink or a hug, but not from a guy she met last night. We are forced to cater to the girl's will here, undoubtably. I wonder if they struggle with these same issues.

There is no black and white answer. Flirting is a thing we all do(yes, Becky, everyone!). I am constantly scared that my friendliness, my outgoing-ness, my care for other people may be perceived as flirting. What do I do? I hold back. I feel it is better to err on the side of caution. If a girl is going to perceive me as complimenting her dress as flirting with her, then I either have to consider a) not complimenting her dress or b) doing it and not caring what she thinks. I know in my heart, and in my mind, that my motives here are pure...she is a friend wearing a beautiful dress, and I want to let her know that.

So I do what feels natural. If a girl doesn't like me complimenting her dress I think she's slightly crazy or a waste of my time,usually. Usually. We are up-tight about this, as Christians more than the general public, and with good reason. But God knows my heart, and I know my motives, and I am going to compliment her dress. I know it sounds like I have two standards here. One saying 'err on the side of caution' and the other saying 'girls need to get over it and I shouldn't change my behavior because they're stupid'. And I do have both of those standards, and they mold together into a weird set of guidelines that I follow.

If I seem to be making a girl uncomfortable, and it's a behavior that *could* be viewed as flirting, I stop, almost always. However, if a girl is uncomfortable, and it's something innocent(in my mind, anyway), like complimenting her dress, I usually don't stop doing it.

If I can absolutely guarantee that I would act this way around any girl....a girl that I do NOT HAVE FEELINGS FOR, then I know that I am doing okay.

This was a series of babblings that probably got nowhere. But, it's what I think. There comes a point where it's the girl's problem. But up to that point, I examine my behavior and am careful. Where that point lies, I do not know.

el fin.

I wish I could sit here and say that there are 3 Simple Rules for Flirting and outline them all with ease and understanding. Unfortunately, I cannot. What I can say is...Except for inappropriate comments and touching (which I'm not even going to address here because they're the sort that no guy reading this would use) I believe that the "rules" are unique in every relationship and situation.

To avoid giving (or getting) the wrong impression, we need to be aware of the person that we're dealing with.

Here's an example: There's a certain guy in the school of music who comes up to me at least daily, greets me with "hey sweetie!" follows that up with a compliment and a hug, and then asks, "so how have you been, honey?" On first assessment, you may assume that this guy has interest in me as more than a friend. However, this is not the case. In fact, this is the same manner in which he greets ever female friend of his AND he has a girlfriend. Am I advocating this overthetop flirtaciousness? No. I'm just saying that we need to guard our hearts by refusing to jump to conclusions and really assessing the issue.

So, you may ask, that allows me to guard my heart, but how can I express interest in someone? Is it ever ok to flirt?

In my opinion, flirting can be a very positive action, beneficial to both people involved. BUT there is a big difference between "being a flirt" and "flirting." To me, a person is "being a flirt" when they are quick to use the same interest-implying actions with almost anyone of the opposite sex. I don't agree with this at all. Not only is that kind of flirting potentially misleading to someone you DON'T have feelings for, but it also can prevent someone you DO have feelings for from understanding your intent. So, I believe flirting should be reserved for someone you are truly interested in...someone you want more than a friendship with.

Does this mean you can never give someone of the opposite sex a compliment? Not at all. But I reccommend reserving things for that "special someone." Know what's so awesome about doing that? Then you don't have to worry about figuring out a way to define "flirtation," because you already have. Flirting, for you, should be what you reserve for people you're interested in. For some, flirting is walking someone home, asking them to dinner, spending time one on one... for others, those things don't qualify as "special" or "reserved."

I encourage everyone to evaluate what you keep reserved for that "special someone." That, to you, is flirting. So, now you know YOUR definition, you can focus on decoding the definition of your interest ;) And you're back to what I talked about in the beginning. It's hard. I know I certainly haven't mastered it! But, it's worth a try.

Wow, it seems like there's a very fine line between flirting or not flirting. I agreed with both posts.
Everyone has responsibility in the area of flirting. It's everyone's responsibility to assess their actions and to try their best to not lead the opposite sex on. It's also everyone's responisibility to not let a simple smile or hug send your mind into the questioning game of "what if he/she likes me?"
I've always felt that, as Christians, we have a responsibility to the hearts of our brothers and sisters. It doesn't matter if we are or are not interested in someone as more than a friend. We should never sabatoge (I know i spelled this wrong) their emotions. This is very easily done, and it's not possible to keep from doing it totally. That doesn't mean that compliments, hugs, and all that sort of fun stuff shouldn't happen. That's fine, and it's appreciated on both sides. However, if you begin to feel that so and so might like you, you should back off. Small attentions can lead to big problems.
Take for example the fact that it is rare I am flirted with. When I become attracted to someone I take everything they do as flirting with me. It's wrong, it's stupid but that's what I do.
If a guy or girl percieves that their actions are causing someone to become infatuated and their emotions aren't the same that person should tone things down a bit. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't remain friends but they should tone it down and wait for it to blow over; it will blow over. There is just a lot of responsibility on both sides and no easy answer. Just act the way that makes you feel the most comfortable and don't alter those actions unless they are producing and undesired effect. We should be able to all be friends without second guessing each other and, for the most part, I find that easy. Any one of my guy friends could treat me with extreme affection and I wouldn't think a thing of it. I feel that's because of the established relationship.
I say we give up on the whole concept of flirting and just all be friends that are conciderate of each other's feelings and see where it goes from there.

jeannine.

'someone special'

heh. :)

I still don't know what to think.

If someone follows the ideas written in the article and its comments, I still don't know how to interpret her actions because:
1) First of all, I don't really know if she is following the "rules" for Christians in regards to flirting; and even if she is using the guidelines y'all wrote... there are still lots of unknowns:
2) I don't know what special things she reserves for flirting, and what she does for everyone. (This one has confused me before when I encountered "flirty" people who I didn't know are "flirty". At first I thought she was telling me she liked me through her actions. Later I realized that I was nothing special, since she smiled/laughed/joked/touched (a lot) all the guys she knows.) And don't get me wrong... we're still friends and I know she's interested in someone else, which makes my life less confusing!
3) Becky suggests we should back off on flirting with someone who might like us, but we aren't interested in them. I think this is a very upstanding idea. But how can I know I'm interpreting her (a random woman... not Becky) flirting properly? Maybe she's just a happy/laughing/fun/touchy-feely type of person with her friends. If I am wrong about it, I could end up making her feel isolated/excluded if she sees me being nice/happy/laughing/etc with others but not her. I'm not saying your comment is wrong, Becky. I think it's right on the money. But I'm not sure I'm skilled enough at judging people's intent to know if I should exclude someone from flirting that I share with everyone else.
4) Jeannine mentions that we should avoid inappropriate touching and comments. I argue that it is like flirting in general, and it's a spectrum where the threshold varies from person to person. I don't know where a person's threshold is, so I don't know what touching for one person is flirting, and not flirting for another.

I like Jeannine's idea of having your own definition of flirting and sticking to it. It doesn't really help anyone else, since they can't easily determine what is flirting to you and what isn't. But it frees your mind to not worry (as much) about how your actions will be perceived. I think the idea is also reflected in what Becky said, "give up on the whole concept of flirting and just all be friends". So we can act/behave however we want according to our own rulebook. We shouldn't worry about how we're perceived unless an issue arises.

Some other thoughts achieved through introspection:

In the article I said that I've been trying to smile/laugh/touch/make eye contact more in general. I do want to be perceived as a more fun/happy/likable person than a logical/boring/stick-in-the-mud. But I'm wondering if it actually *is* a form of flirting in my case. Maybe I'm flirting with everyone (who is not a stranger) just to see who might respond back with the same. I could subconsciously be checking who really likes me as a friend, and maybe even seeing if I get a "special" flirt back. When I write it down, it sounds a bit desperate. But maybe subconsciously I'm getting more desperate to find that "someone special". Does that make me a flirt (which typically means insincere/non-romantic intent)? What if someone behaves as a flirt, but is really honestly saying to everyone through their actions, "I think you're special"? I think (hope?) that the person would stop being flirty to everyone once he or she is dating someone seriously. If it doesn't stop, then I think the term "flirt" *does* apply.

I still argue that I don't know how to identify what a "special" flirt is, though.

Specifically, someone kissed me on the cheek as we were going our own way for the evening. We wouldn't see each other for weeks/months to come. I was really shocked and very confused, but kept it to myself. I thought that maybe over all these years she had been harboring feelings for me. After thinking about it for a while (days), I realized that we had been friends for years, and she was just letting me know in action rather than words how much she cared for me. It was nothing romantic. Once I realized that, my heart was really warmed that someone would do something so simple yet so powerful for me. When I saw her next I did confirm my conclusion just to clear the air. In some ways I really wish I could share that deep caring for my friends in the same way. I haven't yet done it, out of shyness and concern of how it might be misinterpreted.

I'd also like to apologize to everyone with whom I've been snippy or sarcastic when they pay me a compliment. I'm fairly shy/modest, and get caught off-guard easily by compliments. (what I'm wearing, new haircut, helping out, doing a favor, etc) I'm not trying to be mean or rude, and I honestly do appreciate the compliments. I've noticed that I respond that way more to women than men who compliment. I guess I'll have to see what the shrink says about it. Maybe I'm afraid of someone liking / flirting with me. Ahhhhhh.

So subconsciously I might be seeking acceptance/friendship/love from everyone, yet in spoken word and action I'm rude to those who are nice to me. That is *so* messed up.

i need flirting lessons =(

Don't get me started on that topic, Dori.

Sometimes I feel completely dysfunctional when it comes to flirting, dating, and the like.

Is it possible to remedy it? Would lessons work? Perhaps it's a life-long affliction. Oh bother.

I guess... when it comes down to it, I don't know what flirting is... Is it giving someone you care about a hug who needs one, complimenting the things you like about a person, holding the door for someone, or maybe walking someone home? I consider all of these common courtesy, just trying to help our fellow brothers and sisters through the journey of life. Now, along with this, I myself tend to be a very "touchy" person, whereas some other people I know are not. I tend to like personal touch, like hugging and sometimes even cuddling with someone I care about, even though I may not have any aspirations of marrying that person (which in my opinion is the reason of dating, because you have aspirations to marry, and want to test if you and that other person compliment each other in a relationship, but that's another topic). Other people I know, don't like being touched, and I respect that about them, and especially if they tell me they don't feel comfortable, I back off being touchy. So, I guess looping back to where I started, what is flirting, what constitutes as flirting, and what is it's purpose?

Thanks for your input, Sam.

I think it might be interesting if you address what Jeannine brought up. What "flirting", if anything, do you reserve to hint/indicate to someone that you're interested in them, want to know if they're interested in you, and might want to start dating?

You bring up the purposes of dating. I think I'll start a new thread and turn that into a short post. Feel free to put relevent comments there.